Discussion:
USN Martin Mars found
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scott s.
2004-12-16 19:27:37 UTC
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Local paper reported the other day that UH oceanographic researchers
located the sunken remains of the Navy's flying boat "Marshalls Mars"
off of Pearl Harbor in approx 1000 ft. Condition was described as good,
at least considering. This aircraft sank after having an engine fire in #3
engine and exploding while on the surface. They've located a number of
other flying boat / amphibian aircraft in the general area as well.

scott s.
.
Jack Linthicum
2004-12-16 21:26:57 UTC
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more than just the Mars
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Dec/15/ln/ln09p.html

Posted on: Wednesday, December 15, 2004
Aircraft litter seafloor off S. O'ahu

By Jan TenBruggencate
Advertiser Science Writer

An undersea aircraft museum lies on the ocean floor off South O'ahu,
and it includes representatives of virtually the entire era of the
flying boats - from early post-World War I biplanes to World War II
PBY Catalinas and a postwar behemoth that sank in 1950, the Martin
Marshall Mars.


A University of Hawai'i deep-submersible vehicle, right, approaches the
hulk of an old Navy PD-1 flying boat in waters off Pearl Harbor, where
a virtual undersea aircraft museum has been found.
NOAA/HURL photo

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration yesterday announced
a series of discoveries made last week and said agencies are mapping
the sea-floor to document the area's collection of ships, planes and
other maritime archaeological finds.

"Flying boats had a special significance for Hawai'i and the Pacific
islands. They were the only way to get between the islands by air
before the development of airports," said marine archaeologist Hans Van
Tilburg, of the NOAA National Marine Sanctuary program. "The first
interisland air transportation in Hawai'i was in flying boats."

The seafloor region off Pearl Harbor may be better known for its ships,
like the Japanese miniature submarine that was sunk an hour before the
Dec. 7, 1941, attack on Pearl Harbor. The sub's wreckage was found in
2002.

But there's lots more on a bottom of silt and rock in water 1,000 feet
deep and extending several miles from the entrance to Pearl Harbor. The
deep water has currents but not a lot of turbulence, and many of the
aircraft are in remarkable shape, Van Tilburg said.

Some planes have been wrecked. Some have been taken out and dumped,
including at least six former PD-1 Navy bi-plane flying boats. The
giant Marshall Mars flying boat sank April 5, 1950, after it landed
safely with an engine fire and offloaded its crew before the plane
exploded.

Between them, they represent the earliest years of flying boats, and
what some might term the pinnacle of the genre.

The twin-wing PD-1 designs date to the 1920s. Van Tilburg said a
squadron of them flew as patrol craft out of Ford Island in Pearl
Harbor. He has found no records of their disposal, but the fact that
their fuselages are complete and that wheels are attached suggest they
did not fly to their watery ends and were probably dumped, he said.

PBY Catalinas, which served as Navy patrol, rescue and bombing
workhorses during World War II, have also been spotted on the bottom
off Pearl Harbor.

During the war, the government was looking for ways to get lots of
soldiers and gear long distances to places without airports. Size
mattered, and new designs dwarfed the little patrol planes.

The Marshall Mars was one of a half-dozen huge flying boats built by
the Martin aircraft firm as cargo and personnel carriers after World
War II. It was the same era when Howard Hughes was building his famed
Spruce Goose. The Mars planes had 200-foot wingspans - roughly the
same as that of a 747.

They were named for the Pacific island groups they served: the
Marshalls, Carolines, Marianas, Philippines and Hawai'i. Two Hawai'i
Mars planes were built. The second is still flying, hauling water to
forest fires in the Pacific Northwest.

George Hutton, of Chipley, Fla., who worked on the planes as a radioman
in the mid-1940s, said they were comfortable and roomy.

"It was a big, big, monstrous plane, but it was a good plane. You felt
very safe in it. There were several decks and you could go up and down
circular stairways," Hutton said.

He said he flew one long mission across the Pacific on the Marshall
Mars before its fatal flight, in which it landed in the ocean off
Honolulu with its No. 3 engine afire. The crew got off in rubber boats,
but the fire spread, and the plane exploded, in full view of folks from
Waikiki to Pearl Harbor, Van Tilburg said. The plane sank and was lost
until a few pieces were located in an undersea survey in August this
year. The main wreckage was found in dives on Thursday and Friday.

The history of the region off Pearl Harbor is being prized from the
ocean floor by a collaboration of NOAA's National Marine Sanctuary
Program, the National Park Service and the University of Hawai'i's
Hawai'i Undersea Research Laboratory (HURL), which operates the twin
deep-diving submersibles Pisces IV and V.

Reach Jan TenBruggencate at ***@honoluluadvertiser.com or (808)
245-3074.

nice map in original cite
John Szalay
2004-12-17 21:31:02 UTC
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Post by Jack Linthicum
more than just the Mars
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Dec/15/ln/ln09p.html
Posted on: Wednesday, December 15, 2004
Aircraft litter seafloor off S. O'ahu
B
Good article.. and IF you look at the map on the bottom
of that news page. the little bay to the right (east) of Honolulu
airport as shown,, that is Keehi Lagoon, and that is where the
seaplane runways were located, they dredged the coral and made three
water runways, the straight shore line is a result of that work.
the new off-shore, land runway was build over parts of two legs
of those but F you fly into HNL or can get an aerial picture of
that area, you can still see the dredged "water runways"
scott s.
2004-12-20 22:32:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Szalay
Good article.. and IF you look at the map on the bottom
of that news page. the little bay to the right (east) of Honolulu
airport as shown,, that is Keehi Lagoon, and that is where the
seaplane runways were located, they dredged the coral and made three
water runways, the straight shore line is a result of that work.
the new off-shore, land runway was build over parts of two legs
of those but F you fly into HNL or can get an aerial picture of
that area, you can still see the dredged "water runways"
I think that it is fairly recent, though. In WWII, the USN provided
Martin Mariner PBM-3Rs for NATS which were operated out of the
Pan Am seaplane base at Pearl City Peninsula, with maintenance at
Ford Island. Combat aircraft of Fleet Air Wing One operated sout
of NAS Kaneohe.

scott s.
.
John Szalay
2004-12-21 19:41:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by scott s.
. In WWII, the USN provided
Martin Mariner PBM-3Rs for NATS which were operated out of the
Pan Am seaplane base at Pearl City Peninsula,>
scott s.
.
Thanks.
That helps to document a couple of pictures I have been researching
that I found in my dad's service album. they show the Pan Am clipper
(two different ones) at a pier, with a couple of sailors in a out-rigger
canoe, paddling past the plane. The background folage at the Keehi lagoon
seaplane site is a little different than the Pearl City site..
pictures were from the late 30's, ( Dad was a coast artilleryman in Hawaii)

Combat aircraft of Fleet Air Wing One operated sout
Post by scott s.
of NAS Kaneohe.
Nice discription of a couple of Seaplane air missions from that base,
in RAdm. O'Kane's book "Clear the Bridge" about the Tang serving as
beacon and lifeguard for those ops. (pages 41-50)

Andy Dingley
2004-12-17 12:35:38 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:27:37 +0000 (UTC), "scott s."
Post by scott s.
Local paper reported the other day that UH oceanographic researchers
located the sunken remains of the Navy's flying boat "Marshalls Mars"
What's the status of the last two surving Mars ? Until a couple of
years ago they were working as very successful water bombers in
British Columbia, but I think they were finally being pensioned off.
Jack Linthicum
2004-12-17 12:52:07 UTC
Permalink
This has a September 2004 date on it.
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?airlinesearch=Forest%20Industries%20Flying%20Tankers&distinct_entry=true

pictures show both 76820 (C-FLYK)the Phillipine Mars and 76823(C-FLYL)
the Hawaii Mars
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