USN Time Bells Question

[BF Lake]

In David Poyer's Civil War at Sea series, he has USN ships ringing, eg,
eleven bells before mid-day for the men to get a half gill of whiskey, then
twelve bells at noon for them to divide into messes. He is unlikely to be
making a mistake here, so what is the history of the USN system for time and
watch bells? I thought the USN has always used the same system as the RN
(eight bells per four hour watch) only without the dog watches' variation
(1234,1238) but it seems not.

Thanks,
Barry

[Mark Test]

Post by BF Lake
In David Poyer's Civil War at Sea series, he has USN ships ringing, eg,
eleven bells before mid-day for the men to get a half gill of whiskey, then
twelve bells at noon for them to divide into messes. He is unlikely to be
making a mistake here, so what is the history of the USN system for time and
watch bells? I thought the USN has always used the same system as the RN
(eight bells per four hour watch) only without the dog watches' variation
(1234,1238) but it seems not.

This is still a tradition carried out on some ships......depends on the CO.
AFAIK the USN has always based this on the RN standard.....

0600 - 5
0630 - 6
0700 - 7
0730 - 8
0800 - 1
0830 - 2
0900 - 3
0930 - 4
1000 - 5
1100 - 6
1130 - 7
1200 - 8
1230 - 1

Continues thru 'til taps (2200) then starts again at reveille at 0600....

BTW, there's some BS about why we receive permission to strike 8 bells
at noon on the net......It's simple, in the sailing days time was crucial in
knowing where you were at, thus a big deal was made whenever it was noon.

Today, we present the captain 12 'o clock reports prior to noon, then
request permission to strike 8 bells on time.....(even report that the
chronometer
is in order)

Again, AFAIK it's always been 8 bells never 12......

Mark

[Brian Sharrock]

Post by Mark Test

Post by BF Lake
In David Poyer's Civil War at Sea series, he has USN ships ringing, eg,
eleven bells before mid-day for the men to get a half gill of
whiskey,

then

Post by BF Lake
twelve bells at noon for them to divide into messes. He is
unlikely to be
making a mistake here, so what is the history of the USN system for
time

and

Post by BF Lake
watch bells? I thought the USN has always used the same system as the RN
(eight bells per four hour watch) only without the dog watches' variation
(1234,1238) but it seems not.

This is still a tradition carried out on some ships......depends on the CO.
AFAIK the USN has always based this on the RN standard.....
0600 - 5
0630 - 6
0700 - 7
0730 - 8
0800 - 1
0830 - 2
0900 - 3
0930 - 4
1000 - 5
1100 - 6
1130 - 7

That seem rather odd?

Post by Mark Test
1200 - 8

That seem to be correct

Post by Mark Test
1230 - 1

As does this .... number of bells equals number of
turns of the half-hour glass since the watch
mustered. [Ring in pairs;- Ding-Ding; ... Ding-Ding; Ding]

There is a custom of ringing SIXTEEN bells on
the turnover of the year, Eight bells for the old year
and Eight bells for the new year.

--

Brian

[BF Lake]

Post by Mark Test
0600 - 5
0630 - 6
0700 - 7
0730 - 8
0800 - 1
0830 - 2
0900 - 3
0930 - 4
1000 - 5
1100 - 6
1130 - 7
1200 - 8
1230 - 1

Slipped a cog somewhere <G>

Post by Mark Test
BTW, there's some BS about why we receive permission to strike 8 bells
at noon on the net......It's simple, in the sailing days time was crucial in
knowing where you were at, thus a big deal was made whenever it was noon.

In the RCN at Colours, the bell is struck when (whoever is the timekeeper)
says to the duty officer, "Eight o'clock, Sir" and he says, "Make it so" at
which order, the bell is struck eight times for 0800, and then Colours takes
place. I expect this would have been the sequence for "making" it Noon
also.

Post by Mark Test
Today, we present the captain 12 'o clock reports prior to noon, then
request permission to strike 8 bells on time..

Yes, because "apparent noon" by the sun would not have come just when the
half- hour glass would have indicated the forenoon watch was over, so to get
the new day (starting at noon) begun "on time" they would have had to ring
the bell when the master observed apparent noon with his sextant. The first
half-hour glass for the afternnoon watch would also then be tipped. This
would make the forenoon watch a bit longer or shorter than four hours.

Post by Mark Test
.....(even report that the chronometer is in order)

In the RN, at least up till pre-WW2, it was the Sergeant-Major's duty to
report "chronometers wound" His other duty was setting the Guard.

Post by Mark Test
Again, AFAIK it's always been 8 bells never 12......

I tried a search but not much use. One US site said they used the dog watch
1234,1238 which seems odd, because AFAIK it was 12345678 in the RN until the
mutiny at the Nore in 1797 was signalled by five bells in the Last Dog.
Since then they changed it to the 1234,1238 method. The USN was created a
few years prior to that so IMO they would have just kept on using the old
system. ??

The same US site said the US merchant service did away with dog watches in
1915 and changed the name of this period to "evening watch."
Unfortunately, the site uses the term "second dog" which is a civvy sounding
term for the correct name, Last Dog.

Still no verification of what Poyer is saying the USN did in the 1860s.
Anybody?

Regards,
Barry