Slang query - GOUGE

Post by Jeff Crowell
Hi, all.
How about an actual naval-related subject for a change? :-)
When I was in, a common term for inside info was "Gouge."
Anyone have an inkling what the origin of this term is?

Wouldn't mind finding out myself. We used it in the Marines too. I can only
suppose that it derives from the verb, as in, you need to gouge out that
information.

Speaking of terminology, when I attended schools at NAB Littlecreek, you
didn't say Yes or No, you said Check or Hole. Same thing out at Fort Sill,
if I recall correctly. I believe I singlehandedly introduced that
terminology to Nova Scotia when I would use those terms while on leave. OK,
"Hole" never caught on, but "Check" did.

AHS

Jack Linthicum

2003-09-09 13:28:38 UTC

Wouldn't mind finding out myself. We used it in the Marines too. I can only
suppose that it derives from the verb, as in, you need to gouge out that
information.
Speaking of terminology, when I attended schools at NAB Littlecreek, you
didn't say Yes or No, you said Check or Hole. Same thing out at Fort Sill,
if I recall correctly. I believe I singlehandedly introduced that
terminology to Nova Scotia when I would use those terms while on leave. OK,
"Hole" never caught on, but "Check" did.

I get the drift that the first or earliest slang use of gouge was to
cheat and that would fit in with my OCS experience where the
instructor would give 7 of the 10 answers to the impending quiz during
the lecture. This was called "the gouge", even expanded to "the gouge
answers".

1. On the concept of reverse terminology this is from 1848:

http://www.merrycoz.org/voices/bartlett/AMER07.HTM#g
GOUGE. Imposition; cheat; fraud.

R-- and H-- will probably receive from Mr. Polk's administration
$100,000 more than respectable printers would have done the work for.
There is a clean plain gouge of this sum out of the people's strong
box.--N. Y. Tribune, Dec. 10, 1845.

These two from the Web Roots Library (#1 is here too)

2. http://www.webroots.org/library/usahist/doa00004.html
TO GOUGE. To chouse; to cheat.

Very well, gentlemen! gouge Mr. Crosby out of the seat, if you think
it
wholesome to do it.--N. Y. Tribune, Nov. 26, 1845.

3. TO GOUGE. "Gouging is performed by twisting the forefinger in a
lock of
hair, near the temple, and turning the eye out of the socket with the
thumb-nail, which is suffered to grow long for that
purpose."--Lambert's
Travels, Vol. II. p. 300.

This practice is known only by hearsay at the North and East, and
appears
to have existed at no time except among the lower class of people in
the
interior of some of the Southern States. An instance has not been
heard of
for years. Grose has the word in his Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue,
and
defines it as "a cruel custom practised by the Bostonians in America!"

p. 162

David Henderson

2003-09-09 14:23:07 UTC

USN people in the early '70s used the term "gouge" to mean a handy dandy set
of tables or similar aid to derive the needed info from. Say a conversion
table from Imperial measurements to Metric would be called a "gouge" in the
USN at that time.

Aha, similar to a "crib"? Such a thing would be a "crib sheet".

It was not used to mean info in general, such as the British WW2 slang
"gen", eg "What's the gen on this?"

Still going strong with the same meaning, that one.

"What's the gouge on this" (if used as
such today) would have made no sense in the early '70s; correct USN early
'70s useage would be, "Where (or what) is the gouge for (figuring this out)
this?" At least as far as I could understand (not being in the USN) what
they were saying at the time. <G>

Hmm, it wouldn't be a corruption of gauge, would it? I can almost see how
that might work, if substituted.

--
I give confidential press briefings.
You leak.
He's been charged under section 2a of the Official Secrets act.
-- Irregular verbs, Yes Prime Minister.

Derek Lyons

2003-09-09 16:30:05 UTC

It was not used to mean info in general, such as the British WW2 slang
"gen", eg "What's the gen on this?" "What's the gouge on this" (if used as
such today) would have made no sense in the early '70s; correct USN early
'70s useage would be, "Where (or what) is the gouge for (figuring this out)
this?" At least as far as I could understand (not being in the USN) what
they were saying at the time. <G>

Hmm... In the mid 80's we were using the term in a closely related
form.

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:

Text-Only Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html

Enhanced HTML Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to ***@io.com, as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.

Arved Sandstrom

2003-09-09 17:36:53 UTC

Post by Jack Linthicum

Post by Arved Sandstrom
if I recall correctly. I believe I singlehandedly introduced that
terminology to Nova Scotia when I would use those terms while on

leave.

OK,

Post by Jack Linthicum

Post by Arved Sandstrom
"Hole" never caught on, but "Check" did.

USN people in the early '70s used the term "gouge" to mean a handy dandy

set

of tables or similar aid to derive the needed info from. Say a conversion
table from Imperial measurements to Metric would be called a "gouge" in

the

USN at that time.
It was not used to mean info in general, such as the British WW2 slang
"gen", eg "What's the gen on this?" "What's the gouge on this" (if used as
such today) would have made no sense in the early '70s; correct USN

early

'70s useage would be, "Where (or what) is the gouge for (figuring this

out)

this?" At least as far as I could understand (not being in the USN) what
they were saying at the time. <G>

By the late '80's "gouge", at least in Marine enlisted vernacular, was more
along the lines of "gen". And it wasn't just any information, it was inside
information.

Speaking of British terminology, I was sorely tempted at one point to
introduce the term "wallah" into local USMC usage. As in, let us take our
vehicle up to the Transport Wallah for 3rd echelon maintenance. Or, let us
take the howitzer to the Ordnance Wallah for bore inspection. Or, let us
confer with a Radio Wallah across the road. The First Sergeant could have
been the Admin Wallah.

I thought better of it.

I did successfully, for a short period, manage to introduce the term
"aggro". And also "kit" in place of "782 gear" or "deuce gear".

I sort of left it there. Although it would have been exceedingly pleasing to
have addressed a squad or platoon under my direction with "Right, then,
chaps, look sprightly with your kit." before doing drill.

The regimental armoury for 10th Marines was right next door to the 1/10
Liaison shop (which latter I was in at one time). Based on one incident, I
was almost ready to upgrade an armourer from a wallah to a boffin. You are
not allowed to remove the flash suppressor on the M16 unless you are an
armourer. Well, I got tired of trying to make that little inner circle of
barrel tip silver in readiness for an inspection, and said to hell with it,
and did the old screwdriver thing. In short order, bright and decarbonized
barrel tip, and I replaced the suppressor.

What I did _not_ know at that time was that (1) armourers are exceedingly
suspicious of certain parts that are very clean, and (2) that they have
torque wrenches for ensuring that suppressors are properly tightened. Got
away with a verbal warning on that one.

AHS

George Shirley

2003-09-10 13:01:18 UTC

Post by Arved Sandstrom
What I did _not_ know at that time was that (1) armourers are exceedingly
suspicious of certain parts that are very clean, and (2) that they have
torque wrenches for ensuring that suppressors are properly tightened. Got
away with a verbal warning on that one.

Like unto a possum, Man. (which means something in American, but I know
not what--if anyone can translate I would be grateful.)
1. I heard it as above from a USN sailor.
2. David Poyer, in his excellent series on the naval side of the US Civil
War has a southern captain, who says, "Unto, unto, " as a mannerism.
Regards,
Barry

The southern captain was probably using part of a biblical quote, as in
"Do unto others," probably perverted into "Do unto others before they do
unto you."

The American term is "Grinning like a possum." Opossums here bare their
fangs and teeth when startled or cornered trying to BS you into
believing they are vicious. Also a southern term.

Some Americanism's are similar to some of the old Brit swear words like
"'Od's Bodkins", you probably know what that one is. It was considered
risque for the old knights to swear by God's body parts. <VBG>

George

The Raven

2003-09-10 13:08:29 UTC

The southern captain was probably using part of a biblical quote, as in
"Do unto others," probably perverted into "Do unto others before they do
unto you."

Makes sense.

Post by George Shirley
The American term is "Grinning like a possum." Opossums here bare their
fangs and teeth when startled or cornered trying to BS you into
believing they are vicious. Also a southern term.

"Playing Possum" is a term where possums pretend to be dead/uninterested so
as to avoid a conflict.

Post by George Shirley
Some Americanism's are similar to some of the old Brit swear words like
"'Od's Bodkins", you probably know what that one is. It was considered
risque for the old knights to swear by God's body parts. <VBG>
George

--
The Raven
http://www.80scartoons.co.uk/batfinkquote.mp3
** President of the ozemail.* and uunet.* NG's
** since August 15th 2000.

Vince Brannigan

2003-09-10 13:28:42 UTC

Scholars differ on this one but most reject this claim. it has been
heavily studied since "god's bodkins' is in hamlet

God's bodkin, man, much better! Use every/ man after his desert, and who
shall scape whipping

along with another line in which a bodkin is clearly a literal dagger.

For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay, (80)
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin?

The standard interpretation is that the old oath was "God"s body" Which
was considered mildly blaspheming. E.G. finding gods body denied the
resurrection. This was transfered to gods bodkin and ods bodkin by well
known alliteration

YMMV

Vince

BF Lake

2003-09-10 16:04:21 UTC

Like unto a possum, Man. (which means something in American, but I know
not what--if anyone can translate I would be grateful.)

The American term is "Grinning like a possum." Opossums here bare their
fangs and teeth when startled or cornered trying to BS you into
believing they are vicious. Also a southern term.

Thanks for possumology gen. Luckily, around here nobody has an accent or
talks funny. It's a more skookum place than most.

Regards,
Barry

George Shirley

2003-09-10 16:43:12 UTC

Like unto a possum, Man. (which means something in American, but I

know

not what--if anyone can translate I would be grateful.)

The American term is "Grinning like a possum." Opossums here bare their
fangs and teeth when startled or cornered trying to BS you into
believing they are vicious. Also a southern term.

Thanks for possumology gen. Luckily, around here nobody has an accent or
talks funny. It's a more skookum place than most.
Regards,
Barry

Oh, I wouldn't say that. Ever heard two Geordies trying to one up each
other? Worked with a lot of Brits in the Middle East, mostly a hard
drinking lot but decent workers. Don't get me started on Ozzies and
their drinking habits. <BSEG>

George

TMOliver

2003-09-10 16:26:51 UTC

Post by George Shirley
The American term is "Grinning like a possum." Opossums here bare
their fangs and teeth when startled or cornered trying to BS you into
believing they are vicious. Also a southern term.

"Grinning like a possum eatin' sweet 'taters..." is the local version, not
near so popular as: "Like a jackass eatin' cuckleburrs."

I suspect that of all the expressions, "gun decking" may be the oldest and
widely used (or used to be).

TMO

George Shirley

2003-09-10 16:44:14 UTC

Post by TMOliver

Post by George Shirley
The American term is "Grinning like a possum." Opossums here bare
their fangs and teeth when startled or cornered trying to BS you into
believing they are vicious. Also a southern term.

"Grinning like a possum eatin' sweet 'taters..." is the local version, not
near so popular as: "Like a jackass eatin' cuckleburrs."
I suspect that of all the expressions, "gun decking" may be the oldest and
widely used (or used to be).
TMO

Most likely, that and "pencil whipping" and, in the erl patch, "boiler
housing."

George, a fan of slang

Arved Sandstrom

2003-09-10 16:50:57 UTC

Post by TMOliver

Post by George Shirley
The American term is "Grinning like a possum." Opossums here bare
their fangs and teeth when startled or cornered trying to BS you into
believing they are vicious. Also a southern term.

"Grinning like a possum eatin' sweet 'taters..." is the local version, not
near so popular as: "Like a jackass eatin' cuckleburrs."
I suspect that of all the expressions, "gun decking" may be the oldest and
widely used (or used to be).

I regret to say that in the USMC of the late '80's, you could not have used
the term "gun-decking" and have hoped to be understood by more than a very
few junior Marines. :-(

AHS

Derek Lyons

2003-09-11 00:17:38 UTC

Post by TMOliver
I suspect that of all the expressions, "gun decking" may be the oldest and
widely used (or used to be).

I regret to say that in the USMC of the late '80's, you could not have used
the term "gun-decking" and have hoped to be understood by more than a very
few junior Marines. :-(

Why do you regret that Marines don't know what was essentially Naval
slang?

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:

Text-Only Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html

Enhanced HTML Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to ***@io.com, as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.

Arved Sandstrom

2003-09-11 06:48:11 UTC

Post by TMOliver
I suspect that of all the expressions, "gun decking" may be the oldest and
widely used (or used to be).

I regret to say that in the USMC of the late '80's, you could not have used
the term "gun-decking" and have hoped to be understood by more than a very
few junior Marines. :-(

Why do you regret that Marines don't know what was essentially Naval
slang?

What is the difference? Marines _are_ naval. When I was in, I spent my shore
time "aboard" base. On the boat all of my stuff (or most of it) was in a
"seabag". In garrison, in squadbays, windows were "portholes", doors were
"hatches", stairs were "ladders", ceilings were "overheads", floors were
"decks"...you get the drift. So I am simply saying that even terms that
differed somewhat between the naval services ought to have been mutually
intelligible.

Of course, the real explanation may simply be that fewer and fewer people in
the USN are using the term "gun-decking".

AHS

P.S. We used to have guys go postal in garrison, and run around the squadbay
yelling "this is a window, dammit", or "this is a floor, not a godamned
deck".

Derek Lyons

2003-09-12 08:13:38 UTC

Post by Arved Sandstrom
I regret to say that in the USMC of the late '80's, you could not have
used the term "gun-decking" and have hoped to be understood by
more than a very few junior Marines. :-(

Why do you regret that Marines don't know what was essentially Naval
slang?

What is the difference? Marines _are_ naval.

What's the difference? <shakes head> Marines are Marines, not
sailors.

Post by Arved Sandstrom
Of course, the real explanation may simply be that fewer and fewer people in
the USN are using the term "gun-decking".

The real fact is that the term is still in common use in the Navy.

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
at the following URLs:

Text-Only Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html

Enhanced HTML Version:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html

Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to ***@io.com, as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.

Arved Sandstrom

2003-09-12 08:50:26 UTC

"Derek Lyons" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@supernews.seanet.com...
[ SNIP ]

Post by Derek Lyons
The real fact is that the term is still in common use in the Navy.

Its usage is being hidden from embarked Marines then. Terminology like that
percolates - it's impossible to have all these Marines going out on floats
and not pick up on Navy slang. And although I am getting middle-aged, I do
not remember the term being "commonly" used.

AHS

Ogden Johnson III

2003-09-11 16:31:27 UTC

Post by TMOliver
I suspect that of all the expressions, "gun decking" may be the oldest and
widely used (or used to be).

I regret to say that in the USMC of the late '80's, you could not have used
the term "gun-decking" and have hoped to be understood by more than a very
few junior Marines. :-(

Why do you regret that Marines don't know what was essentially Naval
slang?

Were you born stupid, or have you had to work on it? Since Major
Nicolas's first DI told the initial recruits in 1775, "That ain't a
hall, it's a passageway; that ain't a door, it's a hatch; that ain't a
stairway, it's a ladder; that ain't an outhouse, it's a head; ...", US
Marines have known and used USN terminology and slang.

OJ III
[What you really have to worry about is the terminology and slang we
use *for* the USN and its officers and sailors; those can get
downright obscene.]
[Except FMF corpsmen. We *like* FMF corpsmen.]

Duke of URL

2003-09-11 18:05:31 UTC

Post by TMOliver
I suspect that of all the expressions, "gun decking" may be the
oldest and widely used (or used to be).

I regret to say that in the USMC of the late '80's, you could not
have used the term "gun-decking" and have hoped to be understood

Post by Arved Sandstrom
more than a very few junior Marines. :-(

Why do you regret that Marines don't know what was essentially Naval
slang?

Were you born stupid, or have you had to work on it? Since Major
Nicolas's first DI told the initial recruits in 1775, "That ain't a
hall, it's a passageway; that ain't a door, it's a hatch; that ain't a
stairway, it's a ladder; that ain't an outhouse, it's a head; ...", US
Marines have known and used USN terminology and slang.
OJ III
[What you really have to worry about is the terminology and slang we
use *for* the USN and its officers and sailors; those can get
downright obscene.]

Pffthththbbttt...

BF Lake

2003-09-11 18:06:15 UTC

Post by Arved Sandstrom
I regret to say that in the USMC of the late '80's, you could not have used
the term "gun-decking" and have hoped to be understood by more than a very
few junior Marines. :-(

Why do you regret that Marines don't know what was essentially Naval
slang?

Marines should try to get the terminology right though. (what is "right"
being debatable except for the standing rule that RN terminology is always
correct over USN terminology-<G>- and Merchant Service terminology--and
those being superior to anything said by civilian yachties )

In a ship, hatchways (also called hatches, confusingly) are in decks.
Doors are the vertical things that close off doorways in bulkheads and
screens. People who call doors hatches are either civilians or are serving
but who missed something in their training. Hatchway covers are also called
hatches, confusingly.
The openings in the top of tanks such as those in the inner bottom plating
of a double bottom are called access manholes, and these have removable
"covers" which are bolted down and bedded to be either oil or just
water-tight. (with an airplug in wt ones)
A small hinged-cover for an access manhole in larger hatchway cover is also
common.

Hatchways and other openings in decks cause loss of strength, to compensate
for which it is necessary to fit coamings around the edge of the openings.
Especially deep coamings are worked in the way of the funnel uptakes.

In a merchant ship,
A booby hatch is a small additional hatchway giving entrance to a hold
Hatch beams are removable steel beams fitted athwart a hatch to strengthen
it and to support the hatch boards
Hatch boards are stout timber boards which fit over the hatch beams and form
part of the hatch cover
Hatch square--the area enclosed by the coamings of a hatch
Pontoon hatch cover--a steel hatch -cover unsupported by beams

That should put a lid on it (some hope!)

Regards,
Barry

William Hamblen

2003-09-11 21:44:43 UTC

Post by BF Lake
Hatch boards are stout timber boards which fit over the hatch beams and form
part of the hatch cover

Once upon a time there was an outfit that sold coffee tables made from
hatchboards, which are not plain planks, but are bound in steel. I
guess the supply has run out by now, as breakdown freighters probably
are all replaced by container ships.

BF Lake

2003-09-11 22:56:35 UTC

Post by BF Lake
Hatch boards are stout timber boards which fit over the hatch beams and form
part of the hatch cover

I found some more hatchery in an 1885 marine dictionary:

Hatch (cover of a hatchway) Hatchway (also called a hatch)
So they were mixing things up from way back. A door was never a hatch
though <G>

Regards,
Barry

:

Arved Sandstrom

2003-09-11 23:17:02 UTC

Post by BF Lake
Hatch boards are stout timber boards which fit over the hatch beams

and

Post by BF Lake
form

Post by BF Lake
part of the hatch cover

Hatch (cover of a hatchway) Hatchway (also called a hatch)
So they were mixing things up from way back. A door was never a hatch
though <G>

It is now, at least in the USMC. :-) Who cares if the opening is horizontal
or vertical?

Having done some googling, I now accept that in the USN at least, a hatch is
that thing that closes up that hole in the deck (and, of course, it may have
a scuttle in it). So what the heck is that rectangular/oval opening in a
bulkhead called in the USN? Perhaps a "rectangular opening in the bulkhead
where when I collide with either the edges and/or with confused Marines
during GQ, I will hurt myself"?

AHS

Jerry

2003-09-12 14:37:55 UTC

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:17:02 UTC, "Arved Sandstrom"

Post by Arved Sandstrom
So what the heck is that rectangular/oval opening in a
bulkhead called in the USN? Perhaps a "rectangular opening in the bulkhead
where when I collide with either the edges and/or with confused Marines
during GQ, I will hurt myself"?

The only printable thing that I've ever heard them called is
"knee-knockers".

Cheers/2,
Jerry
--

Ogden Johnson III

2003-09-12 01:04:45 UTC

I was in the USN from 1957 to 1963, there were no such things as doors,
even on land bases, they were all called hatches. You effed up and
called one a door your chief would rip you a new one and ask if you were
in the Army. I still have trouble saying "door" forty years later, it
makes my butt hurt.

BANG! BANG! BANG! "SIR, Private Johnson reporting to the Drill
Instructor as ordered [or, requests permission to speak to the Drill
Instructor], SIR." "Center yourself in my hatch, turd."

I wish BF would write letters to the CNO and the Commandant,
explaining to them how the USN and USMC have been doing things all
wrong these past decades.

OJ III
[Of course, that was before the post-VN "all-volunteer" military.
Nowadays, DIs never use the colorfully scatological/obscene terms they
used to use with/for recruits.]

BF Lake

2003-09-12 02:39:16 UTC

Post by Ogden Johnson III
I wish BF would write letters to the CNO and the Commandant,
explaining to them how the USN and USMC have been doing things all
wrong these past decades.

Too late! Cut off from all proper naval culture since 1775/6, the USN now
talks funny and there is no point in trying to fix things at this late date.
However, when you have been brainwashed into sneering at horrible civvies
who cannot talk navy, it is confusing to try and not sneer , but repect the
differences, when another navy talks civvy! Gads, it is worse than
"accepting/repecting " differences of all sorts in our multi-whatsit
society when before it was ok to think "foreigners" were extremely peculiar.

Recalls famous order from the Admiralty to all naval personnel in the UK
during WW2 that to increase inter-service co-operation, "....from now on all
pigeons will be known as airmen and all pongos will be called soldiers."

Regards,
Barry

Arved Sandstrom

2003-09-12 04:24:40 UTC

BANG! BANG! BANG! "SIR, Private Johnson reporting to the Drill
Instructor as ordered [or, requests permission to speak to the Drill
Instructor], SIR." "Center yourself in my hatch, turd."

[ SNIP ]

Well, you didn't get to be a private until boot camp was over. :-) It's more
like "Recruit Johnson". Actually, it's more like "BANG BANG BANG Sir, this
recruit requests permission to speak to the drill instructor, Sir". I
honestly don't think my first name or surname (let alone my middle name)
issued from my lips more than maybe four or five times the whole time I was
at Parris Island, and when it did it was probably in receiving. I was
basically a worm and a shithead, for starters.

AHS

Fred J. McCall

2003-09-13 14:45:44 UTC

Ogden Johnson III <***@cpcug.org> wrote:

:[Of course, that was before the post-VN "all-volunteer" military.
:Nowadays, DIs never use the colorfully scatological/obscene terms they
:used to use with/for recruits.]

Of course they do, OJ. You just have to explain it to them first.

"You are Civilians Under Naval Training. In the interests of
efficiency in speech, I will refer to you by acronym if you attract my
attention. I am *NOT* swearing at you...."

BF Lake

2003-09-12 01:56:55 UTC

Post by BF Lake
Hatch (cover of a hatchway) Hatchway (also called a hatch)
So they were mixing things up from way back. A door was never a hatch
though <G>

If you like peeling potatoes, you could have explained to the chief that it
was really a door because that is what it is called in the British navy and
in merchant ships.

Or, you could comply with CPO rule # 1. (the chief is always right)

The 1885 marine dictionary says doors are of two types: communications and
water -tight. I don't know how common it is in other navies but in the RCN
there were "screen doors" too. These were in the screens (like walls)
leading to the weather decks from inside the superstructure. The screen down
from a shelter deck is what makes it a shelter deck instead of an awning
deck which has the sides open.

Regards,
Barry

Alan Minyard

2003-09-12 16:00:11 UTC

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:27:32 -0500, George Shirley

Post by BF Lake
Hatch boards are stout timber boards which fit over the hatch beams and

form

Post by BF Lake
part of the hatch cover

Hatch (cover of a hatchway) Hatchway (also called a hatch)
So they were mixing things up from way back. A door was never a hatch
though <G>
Regards,
Barry

How things have changed. Ships now have WTDs (water tight doors) and
walls (inside certain tanks).

Al Minyard

BF Lake

2003-09-12 18:19:39 UTC

Post by Alan Minyard

I was in the USN from 1957 to 1963, there were no such things as doors,

How things have changed. Ships now have WTDs (water tight doors) and
walls (inside certain tanks).

On "walls" what do people think is the correct term for longitudinal "walls"
inside the hull? ie bulkheads are athwartships, so what do you call
longitudinal "walls"? Superstructure "walls" are "screens" AFAIK when they
are the "outside walls" but internal partitions of superstructure are not
screens and they cannot be bulkheads either! So what are they? (can't use
"dividers" since these are those two- legged hinged thingies used for
measuring distances on a chart)

I suspect USN ships always had doors same as other ships, some watertight,
and somehow it became fashionable to call them hatches, maybe from having a
large civvy intake in WW2 or somesuch origin. There are also those big
spring- loaded sliding doors between the boiler room and the engine room in
some ships.

On tanks, the sides of double bottom tanks are the longitudinals and
transverse frames of full depth between the outer and inner bottoms. Where
a large tank that extends athwartships is not kept either empty or pressed
up to prevent free surface effect, there are often longitudinal partitions
(sometimes called baffle-plates) Are these now called "walls" in the USN?

1885 marine dictionary on parts of iron ship mentions, among other things,
under tanks:
centre plate, end plate, hatch of, manhole in , manhole cover of, margin
plate, top of

On hatch beams being removable steel beams fitted athwart a hatch to
strengthen it and to support the hatch boards (1951 Seamanship Manual), the
1885 marine dictionary has another definition where you must be careful not
to call a hatchway a hatch to understand which beams you are referring to.

Hatchway beam--in the deck of a wooden ship a hatchway lies between two
full beams before and abaft it, called hatchway beams, same as the beams
before and abaft a "mast hole" are the "mast-beams". Where the hatchway is
, on either side, "half-beams" go from the hatchway "coming" (or carling)
out to the frames. (A mast hole is formed by fore and aft running "mast
carlings" either side of the mast between the mast beams with chocks as
fillers, the deck planks over all this near the mast hole are called "mast
partners"

The built -up verticals around a hatchway on deck to act as breakwaters and
to support the hatch (cover) are called "coming" or "carling" on the two
sides running fore and aft, but the athwartships pieces are called a
"headledge". Hatch -batten cleats are fitted on the outside of both comings
and headledges. Notches are made in the inside top of the comings to take
the athwartship " hatch beams".

This is vital stuff! I mean it's the straight skinny, hot poop, and it's
not duff gen.

Regards,
Barry

ZZBunker

2003-09-13 18:09:59 UTC

Post by BF Lake
Hatch boards are stout timber boards which fit over the hatch beams and

form

Post by BF Lake
part of the hatch cover

Hatch (cover of a hatchway) Hatchway (also called a hatch)
So they were mixing things up from way back. A door was never a hatch
though <G>
Regards,
Barry

Well it should. Since usually at least two Marines per week discover
the hard way, which is the dead way, that's hatches aren't doors.

George

Arved Sandstrom

2003-09-10 22:07:18 UTC

Post by Arved Sandstrom
Speaking of British terminology, I was sorely tempted at one point to
introduce the term "wallah" into local USMC usage. As in, let us take

our

Post by Arved Sandstrom
vehicle up to the Transport Wallah for 3rd echelon maintenance. Or, let

Post by Arved Sandstrom
take the howitzer to the Ordnance Wallah for bore inspection. Or, let

Post by Arved Sandstrom
confer with a Radio Wallah across the road. The First Sergeant could

have

Post by Arved Sandstrom
been the Admin Wallah.
I thought better of it.

Good thing, too. The First Sergeant would not likely have seen himself in
such a light and might have made your existence difficult.

The First Sergeants in both batteries I was in, and infantry companies I was
attached to, already made my life difficult. :-)

[ SNIP ]

Post by Arved Sandstrom
What I did _not_ know at that time was that (1) armourers are

exceedingly

Post by Arved Sandstrom
suspicious of certain parts that are very clean, and (2) that they have
torque wrenches for ensuring that suppressors are properly tightened.

Got

Post by Arved Sandstrom
away with a verbal warning on that one.

When in training at CFOCS (unlike all the other guys from the ranks) I
did not bring a spare piston and gas plug for the FN. What I did bring
was Hoppe's nitro solvent, WD-40 spray and my bicycle tools, and these
last had all sorts of uses in gunsmithing. I got some suspicious looks
from the DS, but no grief over the cleanliness of my weapon. The Weapons
Tech on the range, however, sniffed it and "tut-tutted" as he helped me
adjust my sights during zeroing, and later gave me some helpful hints.

When I was in 1 Fd Regt RCA(M) we used to clean our C1's, C2's and Sterlings
with a 50/50 mix of Varsol and gasoline. The procedure was brutal on one's
hands (it's not exactly like the Palmolive commercials), and probably the
fumes are one reason why I am not as intelligent these days as I was in my
teens.

In the Marines we resorted to showering with our rifles. Also an illegal
procedure. Commonly done before an IG or CG inspection. You were only
supposed to use CLP and scrub away...screw that - we all hot-water-blasted
those damn things. Some guys even took steam to them. I mean, heck, those
darned handguards.

AHS

Jerry

2003-09-09 14:17:21 UTC

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:26:14 UTC, "Jeff Crowell"

Well, I know that I first learned the term upon arriving at the Naval
Academy as a freshly caught plebe in 1959. Who knows how long it had
been there, or even whether it originated there...

Jerry
--

TMOliver

2003-09-09 15:55:39 UTC

Post by Jerry
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:26:14 UTC, "Jeff Crowell"

Well, I know that I first learned the term upon arriving at the Naval
Academy as a freshly caught plebe in 1959. Who knows how long it had
been there, or even whether it originated there...

Certainly applicable at NAVOCS in '62 (with a similar term, "Skinny"
or better, "Straight Skinny" applying to gossip and local news). Then's
there's "Finagle's Variable Constant" used in math and sciences....

TMO

Bob McKellar

2003-09-09 16:53:30 UTC

Post by TMOliver

Post by Jerry
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 19:26:14 UTC, "Jeff Crowell"

Well, I know that I first learned the term upon arriving at the Naval
Academy as a freshly caught plebe in 1959. Who knows how long it had
been there, or even whether it originated there...

At the ."68 version of NAVOCS, "gouge" implied extra assistance from the
instructor, not really cheating but a matter of emphasis in class on the
exact questions to be found on the next multiple guess test. When the
phrase "pelican hook" was spoken with great precision and increased volume,
you took notice!.

In a related matter, one Chief earned enduring gratitude for his practice of
dimming the lights, showing "Victory at Sea" films, and somehow never
noticing who went to sleep.

Bob McKellar M-6901

Brad Meyer

2003-09-10 00:29:08 UTC

Post by Bob McKellar
When the
phrase "pelican hook" was spoken with great precision and increased volume,
you took notice!.

In Nuke Power School in the '70's such an item was known as a "horse"
and often was indicated as such by an ohms symbol with a tail.

I still use the expression today, as in "Let me give you a horse for
checking such and such".

Fred J. McCall

2003-09-13 05:47:41 UTC

Brad Meyer <***@comcast.net> wrote:

:On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:53:30 -0400, Bob McKellar <***@coastcomp.com>
:wrote:
:
:>When the
:>phrase "pelican hook" was spoken with great precision and increased volume,
:>you took notice!.
:
:In Nuke Power School in the '70's such an item was known as a "horse"
:and often was indicated as such by an ohms symbol with a tail.

We were much more straightforward. Any time the instructor kicked the
podium, you knew that what was just said was going to appear on the
exam.

--
"We come into the world and take our chances.
Fate is just the weight of circumstances.
That's the way that Lady Luck dances.
Roll the bones...."
-- "Roll The Bones", Rush

Justen Meltz

2003-09-09 18:49:10 UTC